Paul J. Lucas wrote:
>> And, in the meantime, the signal-to-noise ratio is so bad that
>> it drives some listeners out because they simply don't have time
> > to wade through the off-topic stuff to find the on-topic stuff.
>>
>I wish you would stop calling stuff off topic because its you who are
>going to discourage people from participating. You seem to have gotten
>the wrong idea. This newsgroup is not just about Rainbow Gatherings.
>Other things we Rainbows are interested in are not off topic. What you
>seem to want is a group just for One Topic: Rainbow gatherings. I think
>that's beautiful and there's nothing stopping you from starting one, but
>I don't think you are correct in your assumption that this is it.
>When you and BJ say there are other newsgroups we can use for these
>other issues, you are simply wrong. For example, I am researching
>electro accupuncture and I want to tell people in the Rainbow about it.
>I could simply DISCUSS it it any number of health newsgroups, (in fact I
>have), but there is no other news group where I can tell rainbows about
>it. It has nothing to do with scouting for sites or any particular
>rainbow gatherings, but it is something I personally think they ought to
>know about and which many of them will find fascinating. Just because
>you are not interested in such discussions does not mean they are off
>topic. It is not off topic for me to discuss it, it is not correct for
>you to keep saying that such topics are off topic, and there is no other
>newsgroup where I can discuss it with rainbows.
>I'm starting to feel like I'm not welcome here and I'm very carefull to
>never go where I'm not welcome. I'm concerned that there may be other
>people with other intrests who won't post because they have read your
>misinformation. One of the best things about this newsgroup is that it
>is one of the few which is not limited to one topic. That means you can
>really get to know PEOPLE and not just one topic or another. I want to
>encourage people to share more, not less.
>The low signal to noise ratio is not a function of topics as much as it
>is a function of people's willingness to take the time to communicate,
>and to read and write carefully. We all have alot to learn in that
>department, but we are never going to learn how to communicate more
>effectivelly with each other and with the rest of the world if we are
>limited to one topic. I'm interested in anything that is truly
>revelutionary, and so are most of the people here. That's how we got
>interested in Rainbow Gatherings. There is no reason why we can't share
>our other experiences with each other. In fact that is a fundemental
>part of the rainbow experience.
>Rodeo Red
Gee Red, you seem to be upset?
Actually, the core of your message I completely agree with.
That is that most topics on AGR, that to some might seem "off topic" to
rainbow, are indeed valid topics.
Yes I also said many of those topics had other websites dedicated to those
subjects and I believe in general that is true.
But what I failed to think about, is that folks also want to talk about
these things with "family" not just with people/websites that are focusing
on the "one subject".
This is the most valid reason I’ve heard so far (other than we’re
unmoderated plain and simple) ….
and your explanation of it helped me see it.
Yea, the reasoning that "all you have to do is ignore/delete it" is true
(and I agree).
But an argument can be made that to much bandwidth (regardless of reason)
does cause problems ans some people to not be able to subscribe to this
newsgroup because their server/mailbox or ?, can’t handle the volume. The
only choice then is to read the newsgroup by logging on and reading the
current listings. Due to the volume of posts it’s real easy to miss posts
(unless you have daily access to a computer) so it makes it harder to
follow threads.
(somebody please correct me if I’m wrong here. I don’t claim to really know
that much about computers)
And what happens as more family come online, plug in and start posting?
Seems it could get real thick as our numbers grow.
But I’m getting way off track from my main point, I just wanted to point out
that it’s not always an option for some folks to just "delete" what they
don’t want to read.
But is the answer to that, telling others they should not post threads that
don’t "appear" directly related to rainbow? No that’s not right either as
has been pointed out.
Though I did reply to Paul’s original comment and probably should have just
left it alone… I did say earlier that my original posts complaining of AGR
being filled with mostly topics "unrelated" to rainbow, was an unfair judgement.
I explained my real frustration was wanting to see more discussions of
"Rainbow topics" (as relating to our gatherings/family). Any perceived lack
of it on my part, of course had nothing to do with other threads I
considered "not rainbow topics" (and still don’t in the meaning I meant )
So I guess whether some subject is or isn’t a "rainbow topic" is a mute
point since it’s family talking to family regardless of content, and that
definitely is part of what AGR is about.
As I said before, I should have directed my words towards what frustrated
me and not point fingers of blame at other threads.
But I still believe we need to focus more on our gatherings, I’m sorry but
there really are many problems that exist in our family mostly because
enough of us don’t focus on them. Once a year doesn’t seem enough time
anymore for folks to work together to do all that needs doing.
And AGR is a fantastic opportunity to help channel some of that energy
throughout the year….. From that point, I went somewhere I shouldn’t
have…..said so before…. and now say it again.
But hey! That’s how we learn sometimes.
It always helps when we try to take the time to notice other causes of
actions that have little to do with the surface of the subject, but were
created by it’s actions. Somebody can wreck their car and think it’s a real
bummer/loss at the time to only find out something very good happened to
them later because of events created from the original action of the reck
……. So too with these threads, regardless of the merits of the original
points being discussed, other side issues get created like; how we react to
each other, how we explain things, etc. If thought about, these other
actions could teach us more than any harm done by the original subject.
Sorry if my comments (or anybody’s) upset you to the point you felt
personally unwelcomed and considered going away, but that’s a bit extreme of
a reaction don’t you think?
I myself got something out of it thanks to others comments and spending time
thinking about what I said.
So to me this is all good even if it does have a bit of negative attitude
around the whole thread.
So what? Need we only learn in a "pleasant" atmosphere?
As for Paul; his first post had some points even if they didn’t seem valid
or were wrapped a little ruff. His second post kinda got way out there, but
he also implied being kinda new and not knowing how things worked, wouldn’t
feel comfortable going to the Calif. Council, or something to that effect
(hope he changes his mind).
Can not Paul be given the curtesy of attempting to enlighten him in a kind
way (as dragonfly’s manner) instead of telling him he’s a jerk and should
take his attitude elsewhere?
He has only made a few posts and I remember not very long ago a brother
named James who posted endlessly with words that offended many who thought
they weren’t proper for AGR. Yet many people also defended his right to stay
and speak his mind. I hope Paul is afforded as much.
Saying we’re all rainbows and have a right to be here then turning around
and Telling folks to go away because we don’t like what they say or their
"topic of thread" isn’t welcome, seems a bit contradictory to me.
I know I’ve learned something about that, hope others have too.
PAUL: Welcome to the wonderful world of rainbow, stick around and find out
nothing is what it seems at times. If your complaints of discussions not
being about "rainbow" came from your desire to learn more about the family
or wanting to help out in some way, then I welcome you to hang in there and
learn and grow…. hopefully us all.
RED:….I also liked your point of someone starting a newsgroup "with" a main
focus on our gatherings/family (though it would be nice if it too was
unmoderated, but just had an understanding that that was it’s main purpose).
I believe rob recently said something about the original purpose was to have
several newsgroup "branches" of alt.gathering rainbow so folks could go off
and have several focuses going on at the same time including rainbows just
talking to rainbows about whatever.
This seems to make more sense than trying to lump everything into one batch.
Not that I would want to see it get "too" split up, but a couple different
side branch’s would seem like a win-win situation and be beneficial to
rainbow in general. I wish I knew more about computers to help. I hope Rob
someday finds help/time to implement a side branch as was the original
intention.
But none the less This ongoing thread isn’t as bad as you think and I doubt
if it will scare anybody off as you seemed concerned about. In fact,
somebody just might learn something from it ( I know I did :)
Till the time this newsgroup does get other side threads going I guess we’ll
just all have to share this same space, conflicting opinions and all …..
Just remember "conflict" can be a good & healing thing also……
Peace to you brother………. BJ
P.S. Hey, I guess this thread must count as a "valid" rainbow topic since so
many people are commenting to it right? :)