I should have made this point more clear in not limiting Atheism to disbelief in
a hereafter but also including a disbelief in some kind of superior guiding force.
Personally I do believe that there is something/someone(s) beyond our immediate
comprehension running things, I've seen and experienced too many weird & unexplained
events to believe in "Coincidence".
>
> > I doubt that the human race
> > will still be around in 5 billion years. How do you know that not everybody would get >to go?
> > Either with giant advanced starships, a mentally evolved astrally-projecting humanity,
> > or recharging the Sun's hydrogen fuel, there is hope.
>
> How many billions would Earths population then? We are around 6 BILLION
> now.
> I agree there is hope. However I do not believe that the hope lies in
> moving billions
> of people light years away.
6 billion humans on Earth is too many, we need to limit our population, but not by insane methods
such as the Holocaust or China forcing women to have abortions. We can and should live in Space,
perhaps even make Earth a human-free zone for a while and let the planet heal itself. In Space,
you get very few chances to make mistakes. Out there you can fry or freeze or boil to mush.
Humanity may actually learn some valuable lessons if seperated from Earth for a time.
> <SNIP>
> >
> > Trust blindly in something you've never seen, like the short-term attitude of those >who overfish the oceans
> > and cut down the forests,
>
> Blind trust in the creator of all things (Spirit) is vastly different
> than short term attitude of those who destroy/exploit the ecosystems for
> greed.
Blind trust is a tool that can be used for good or evil, like nuclear energy.
>
> > or try to do something constructive about it, like those protesters and
> > astronauts who bravely risk their lives to stand up for what they feel is right.
>
> I believe that eco protestors are brave and not self consumed.
Some are brave and motivated for change, some are anarchists bent on destruction and chaos.
> Astonauts are brave also but I feel differently about their bravery. I
> am not
> convinced that their motives are related to the salvation of mankind
> rather
> than the thrill of exploring the unknown. They are certainly
> experiencing a
> different thrill than those that put their lives/freedom @ risk for an
> obvious
> cause. Eco protest has an immediate sustainable payback if successful.
> Benefitting everyone here, now and the future.
There is also a difference between those who are willing to sacrifice today for a better
tomorrow, and those who want immediate gratification and damn the consequences. Actually,
a TV commercial surprised me once. A Mother with a sick child didn't want to contribute
money to protecting the rain forests, she didn't realize that most medicines come from
there in the first place. Many benefecial inventions and discoveries have come through
serendipity, happy accidents. Wars can lead to peace and advancement. The benzene ring
and the sewing needle were discovered in dreams. Rubber was perfected when someone spilled
a mixture onto a hot stovetop. It took longer to make a zipper that works that it did to
create the technology that took us to the Moon. The Human Genome Project has the capacity
to cure many diseases, or create s sub-human slave species. Space exploration is no different.
The advantages and disadvantages are infinite and we will take the risks to reap the rewards.
>
> > "God helps those
> > who help themselves."
>
> BTW this popular notion is not scriptural. Not that it matters but I
> don't
> believe it I don't think many suffering 3rd worlders or holocaust
> victims
> felt that way.
True. A priest would probably say,"God works in mysterious ways." There is much
illogical suffering on this planet. Perhaps it is the price we pay for life.
>
> I do beleive that God does and has helped those who call on God. Not
> every time
> by our mortal logic ... but many times. I can attest to this personally
> for practical needs; food shelter clothing as well as seeing radical
> healing
> from cancer (non-hodgkins lymphoma, family member).
I have also seen terminal illnesses cured by unknown means. Unknown means that we
don't understand everything yet, that's why we're human and not Gods.
>
> Anyway, If NASA spent their $$$ on undersea research, education,
> protecting
> Earths natural resources. Perhaps developing a method to extract
> duterium (H3)
> from the oceans I would beleive that the $$$ was much better spent.
25 years ago UCLA students built a car that ran on water that got 100 miles/gallon
very quickly and polluted very little. Much alternative technology has existed for
some time, like Tucker's car, that has been squashed by the iron fists of small-minded
inferior competitors and greedy oil magnates running our economies off petrol.
>
> <SNIP>
>
> >
> >
> Riiiight. Like it was hubris to belive the Earth was spherical, that
> humans would never fly (41
> > test pilots died trying to break the sound barrier), that trains would never go more than 25mph,
> > that we shouldn't go into Space since we need air to breathe, that AIDS is God's will. Give me a break!
>
> I do not personally believe any of these statements. Please do not
> infer that I do.
I apologize.
> I recognize that OTHER foolish people do/have believed this. How
> ignorant.
In 100 years maybe people will say that the War On Drugs was ignorant, whereas right now
it's the Witch Hunt of the 90's in the US, and many believe that it is justified. A cop
at the recent Boston Pot Rally was quoted in the newspapers as saying,"How many times do
we have to arrest marijuana users before people realize that it's bad?" This sounds frighteningly
similar to a WWII Nazi who said,"How many jews do we have to kill before all know that Jews
are evil?"
> <SNIP>
> >
> > Destroying the Space program will not put food in childrens' mouths. You are >oversimplfying the
> > problem. There is more than enough water, food, and energy on Earth for all of us,
> > but because
> > of human politics and greed it is not being evenly distributed.
>
> More than half of our tax dollars support the military machine.
> Talk about politics.... The Cassini project cost more than the USA gains
> in
> revenue annually for the timber harvested on public land!
The War On Drugs, with a current budget of almost $15 billion a year, is such a dismal
failure that it makes Prohibition look like an out-of-business candy store. Education in
the US, the best weapon against fear, receives a mere $500 million a year. I would much
rather see wasteful government programs like the War On Drugs and the IRS slashed big time,
than cut the Space program budget which has already been dissected to a fraction of its
former self primarily by Ronald Reagan.
>
> Are you familiar w/ Freeman Dyson? He believes that big $$$ spent on
Yes. He proposed constructing a giant sphere completely surrounding a Sun to capture all
its energy and provide living space for zillions of people. However, it would take all non-
stellar material from a dozen solar systems to build a Dyson Sphere.
> projects
> like Hubble telescope which yield little science would be better spent
> on
> smaller $$ costing projects which would yield greater amount of science
> and
> which woud provide access to a greater number of scientists.
>
> Big $$ projects are politically hotter than small $$ projects.
> NASA IMHO is one of our biggest sucking black holes. Better to redirect
> to $$ to research & DEVELOPMENT of our planets resources.
Nasa expenditures were much heavier under JFK, Nixon, and the Cold War than they are now.
Outer Space should receive equal attention as Inner Space. I'd love to see underwater
cities as much as Space colonies.
>
> I agree that a political problem must be overcome to fairly
> care for all earths' citizens.
>
> Thanks for the dialog.
> Glenn
You're welcome, I also enjoy arguing with an intelligent opponent.
andy